Realisation is a phenomenon that illuminates the individual,
his mind and intellect, and the constant I - sense - idea in which
one is rooted through action, emotion, thought and knowledge.
Post realisation, the person isn't the same... as in his paradigms,
values, beliefs, perspectives, and the idea one has of the universe,
life, nature, history, beings, situation, other people, and of oneself.
One : Realisation causes surge of a new set of desire primarily for causing, enabling and facilitating realisation among others, to which however one is not attached for results or for satisfaction to oneself. The desire does bring forth an untiring will tempered equally with endless patience, absolute fearlessness accompanied with deepest compassion, and uninhibited action and behaviour with pervasive mindfulness and concern for spiritual welfare.
The truth paradigm is characterised with clear break and protection from that transient subjectivity of before, which could take over or even overwhelm occasionally but not asunder or blanket access to this integrated consciousness... universal, homogeneous and unified... that and liberates the individual forever from all states of doubt, confusion, want and unhappiness.
And, two : Realisation erases those self - serving desires, active urges and potent memories, values perspectives arising of experiences impressed and evolutionary past remnant in one's subconscious... that keep the individual tethered to particular psychological habits, formed of impacts from outside of other people's form, status, thoughts and views, of fear, of concern with being right or wrong, and of least want to be what one is already not or have what one already does not have.
This " realisation " process, in practice, takes one through stages of fullness and freedom along what could be termed as the " path " of spiritual evolution of man.
It is on these resources of ours - Time, Attention and Exertion, and in the willing priorities of our I - being, that the actual conflict between the reigning lower nature and the drawing higher nature of ours takes place within us. It may take a moment or ages for us to resolve to go with the electable, depending upon how we are spiritually poised along the evolution scale. The starting up event however is simply an exercise of choice, as a matter of fact... choose to forego ( the rather intense reality of ) the pleasurable, of objects that are greatly but merely desirable, and spend our being's resources on making the electable more real for ourself than mere ideas that we know and are aware of. For the electable are markers pointing to something higher than what we then might be subscribing to in our priorities and preferences. The source they lead to, admittedly within ourself, exceeds our very I - being then...
Our spiritual evolution is not in the esoteric images that modern - day practitioners and commercial preachers of the East entice the populace to. It is exoteric in its effect : uprooting the evil, its lure and potential within us. The time period and the scale along which this process takes place is not uniform or predictable. And the results are definitely non - linear.
The evolution curve takes us through consciousness particular to diverse multi - dimensional convergence domains including Time - Space - Species constrained limitations, knowledge, awareness and values perspectives ... each with their specific material - physical - mental - intellectual - spiritual content of being.
The distribution of individuals along the evolution scale is pyramidal, with a base that has an endless spread. The barriers to rising up are exponentially higher, from the lowest to the highest. In these terms, the divide between the material and spiritual is huge.
Very few ( occasionally ) actually transcend it. Because we are born, inveterate materialists. Say, abiding agreement based on shared values alone, not on lure of rewards or fear of punishment, and committment to such an agreement, is a very evolved thing to happen. That is why it is rare, which is also why trust is at such a premium !
Given the species we are, at any point in time ... ( space specific differentiation cause more disagreements ) ... there are very few who by their realisation - values - perspective would agree to the same thing.
Agreements are easier to accomplish for spoils or gains for material objects. They readily satisfy the will gravitated to our lower nature.
But, bat an eye, the agreement disappears. And The Reign Of Terror ensues.
The me - mine - myself anchor is more, far far more powerful than all attractions of knowledge, reason and ' ideas.'
Ironically, nobody can be faulted. Blame the Time - Space - Species - Individual realisation and evolution curve coordinate, if you will !
The monster is the Buddha.
The Chakra Tantra offers a very simplified picture of the realisation and evolution scale.
... Context To The Discussion …
On Oct 21, 12:43 am, ornamentalmind wrote:>
" What I find is that all truths are obvious. If that is the aim, then there is nothing to be done, except to ' see.'" Vam
Exactly so Vam ! I think it was my retelling of the Sufi story of 3 men all being right that first struck a chord in Neil. In fact, there is nothing to be done in one sense. In another, I do not cease eating, sleeping nor even thinking. Also, while we may have known all truths… when a child, I was happy to have met and read remarkable wo/men along the path who shared more clarified and purified apprehensions than I had at the time. So, it is in a way incumbent upon those who can to do.
" 01 Unity is one thing, unity through agreement is quite another ¦ Unity through agreement is impossible, except on a limited scale. There will always be disagreement, expressed or not." Vam
I almost left your very eloquent words now replaced by the ellipsis so they could be read again! However, what you suggest here, a sort of criticism and argument, is true too. However, to be clear, I do not propose a tyrannical agreement nor a 1984 type either. Unity of subjective words can only manifest in what you have clearly said, words are subjective ! We agree. And, in this process, (using words online) specific recognitions can and have been addressed in a fully functional way. I expect no more nor no less here. More importantly, both a fact and a direction for ˜work" is presented. This, even though we know that in any ultimate sense, nothing can be done, AND knowing that what we ARE ˜doing" may be part of this so called non-doing too.
" 02 Unity in effort, interest, programme or association is possible, more completely at reduced scales. Unity through affinity, need, characterisation or empathy too is possible ... more readily around carnal and commonplace basics like birth, food, sex, security, power, death and their auxilliaries such as money, money, money, money, money and money ... and less and less readily around the exalted and the intangibles such as feeling, emotion, thought, idea, knowledge ... " Vam
Yes Vam, I fully empathize. And, as humans we all have feelings, emotions, thoughts, ideas and knowledge. This is an aspect of how we are one. We are of the same pattern. Most of us have had quite similar if not equal feelings, emotions, thoughts and ideas albeit at different points in time. Yes, our specific associations with words may differ, yet the same seed is found within. So, in this pure sense, our knowledge is one too. How do we know this? One way is to share as we do here at Minds Eye !
More to your real point about agreement being apparently impossible – I'm not so sure this is in fact the case. IF one uses the more common paradigms, ones that we know have not been successful, of course this is the case. There is something about those who keep trying the same thing expecting a different result, no ?
So, while accepting the apparent contradiction of agreement and unity being mutually exclusive, I suggest we continue using the axiom that they are not (exclusive) and see how that goes. What do you think ? Again, a possibly poor analogy would be the different types of non - Euclidean geometries that arise when one of Euclid's axioms is assumed to not be true. To explore in these realms, memes must be severed.
On Oct 20, 9:42 am, Vamadevananda wrote:
You strike the chords in my core ... indeed !
What I find is that all truths are obvious. If that is the aim, then there is nothing to be done, except to ' see.'
01 Unity is one thing, unity through agreement is quite another.
Differences and diversity abounds. Every part of speech - nouns, adjectives, adverbs ... brings in view an endless range of differentiation. Conditioned to these differences ( and inequities ), unity to us is a mere term of abstraction.
To a de - conditioned mind however, when differences and diversity remains superceded, unity is obvious and immediate in our view. Cows are different ; each cow is innately aware of such differentiation. But all differences disappear in ' cowhood.' All cows are characterised by this cowhood, that makes each a cow.
Men are different. Humanity is one. Living beings are different. The Earth is one. ... Planets are different. The Galaxy is one. ... Galaxies are different. The universe is one.
Differences are natural, in this manifest state of minimum potential. To be able to see the unity takes effort, like taking water up the slope.
Unity through agreement is impossible, except on a limited scale. There will always be disagreement, expressed or not.
02 Unity in effort, interest, programme or association is possible, more completely at reduced scales. Unity through affinity, need, characterisation or empathy too is possible ...
>> more readily around carnal and commonplace basics like birth, food, sex, security, power, death and their auxilliaries such as money, money, money, money, money and money ...
>> and less and less readily around the exalted and the intangibles such as feeling, emotion, thought, idea, knowledge ...
---
THE MATERIALIST CAVALIER …
In an interview, a top ranking ' star ' seemed tortured and confused to me.
His refrain was : Come on, I'm a materialist. I'm just doing a job ... a f*****g job ! That's all ! !
The spiritual aspect to it is that there's no job that is " just a f****** job."
Imagine a soldier or, better still, the contorted face of an Ortsgruppenleiter, saying that !
To tell the truth, all soldiers of modern armies are mercenaries. Theirs is not just a f******* job.
They are paid to kill other people, on command, no disobedience allowed except at the risk of being court marshalled or even summary execution.
Theirs is a job that kills other people, right or wrong.
The ' star ' endorses products and becomes brand(s) ambassador.
That too isn't just a f**king job. You are actually telling people what they should believe, buy, consume, where to invest their savings ... without really knowing much about the product or service quality, or the organisation, at least in the medium and longer term.
A proof of which is that you would endorse a competing product or brand in a couple of years time, without a thought to what actually your previous ' job ' meant and did to other people !
All ' jobs ' affect other people, environment, life, and impact on societal norms and values ... more or less, the right or wrong way.
Unfortunately, 90% of the world's ' employee ' population cannot choose their jobs, where the agenda is set by the paying counterpart.
They are lucky to have one, even if the employer is a mafia ' Don !'
It's bad and dirty, but spells business.
Anybody who has the right reference values and the ability, with insistence, to view things critically is a ' spiritual ' person.
And, you can see why such gnomes are scarce ... Because acquiring those qualifications is difficult, the mastery rather extremely !
THE ARTIST'S WAY …
" ... nothing mattered but this -- that she loved him and he loved her.
Nothing else was of any account, not the planes, not the bombs, nothing but this.
This was what happiness was -- he'd never known it before ; this melting away, this exaltation,
your guts spilling into your head, filling your eyes -- your mind transformed into your body, your body instinct with joy in your mind ;
this sensation of reality having met its end."
......from The Glass Palace : Amitav Ghosh
This projection of the experience touches us.
It speaks of Reality, this Existence we live in our experience ... its truth is our Truth. The specifics recede into the background.
The experience is real, if scarcely. Its unreal, commonly. And both, its reality and its unreality, are true.
But, the first one is a higher, superior truth in value ... positive, breathing, happy, liberating.
In fact infinitely more, compared to the truth of its unreality.
The realised truth of its reality remains in our memory, ever obvious and overwhelming over other impressions.
In practice, the apparent unreality of what is so crucial, and vital to us, serves the thankless process of our detachment, our de - identification with every thing and its fruits, their meaning and relatedness.
What we know or not in truth... is what and how we are in fact !
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